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Band saw vs Cut-off/Chop saw vs hackzall for steel cutting Benchwork and roadbed
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Super User 4,474 posts eastwind Super User 4,474 posts
eastwind
I am going to build benchwork from 1" square steel tubing and 1x1 angle steel pieces. I'll have welding done off-site, which will make the 'profile' pieces. They'll be shaped like a lowercase 'h', with the tall side in back to hold up the backdrop and the short leg in front. Those will be welded. Then I will bolt on pieces running horizontally to another 'h' at the other end of the section. Probably 4 pieces, one on the front corner and 3 on the back vertical at the floor, top and middle.
 
So I will need to be cutting my 1x1 angle stock to length (and drilling bolt holes in it and the welded 'h' pieces). 
 
What I have right now that can do that job is a hand hacksaw. I have a feeling that I'll get worn out pretty quick using that on the steel. My question is what power tool to invest in?
 
The length of the pieces I cut doesn't need to be perfect, and the angles I cut the 1x1 at don't have to be a perfect 90 degrees either. So I am wondering if the most reasonable thing would be to use my vise to hold the piece and a hackzall held two handed to do the cut. I haven't tried one before, so when they say 'vibration is controlled' I don't have the experience to know whether that's good enough for this job.
 
I don't have a band saw or a chop saw. I can do the cutting outside, either on saw horses or by dragging my work table outside (with the vise attached to it).
 
As far as specific tools, if I'm going to get something that runs on a battery, I am committed to the milwaukee M18 system. But I could go for something cheaper that's corded from any brand. A band saw and a table for it would be nice, but the milwaukee solution would run around $800 (their band saw table is way overpriced). I could get away with their smallest band saw, but don't want to go M12 and start a second battery system.
 
Beyond the benchwork, I don't think I'll have a use for these tools. As I work my way around the room, I'm going to have more than a dozen modules, so times 4 that's a lot of cutting to do by hand. It's worth a couple hundred to me to have a power tool to do it, but not $800 or more. 
 
I have time before I get to this cutting, I'm planning ahead at this point.
 
Hoping to hear from the metalworkers out there.

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index
Reply 4
Ken Rice Super User 7,503 posts
Ken Rice
Not a metal worker, don’t know what the right answer is.
 
But is there somewhere you could rent tools from locally?  It might be relatively cheap to rent a tool that would be better suited to this particular task than you’d want to spend the money on and/or have to store once you’re done with it.

My Bristol Industrial Track blog: https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/east-penn-rr-bristol-industrial-track-construction-begins-13769392
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Reply 2
eastwind Super User 4,474 posts
eastwind
Thanks for that idea, I'll have to ask around. 
 
They raised the minimum wage here to what is (with the dollar's weakness) now over $12 per day, so for a contractor needing to do a job it's often going to be cheaper to hire a laborer for a day than a power tool. In Cancun people make more, but there is still an incredible amount of work done with hand tools and persistence.  But I wasn't going to build all the modules at once. Which might make it easier to slog through doing the cutting by hand, 4 cuts a day, say.

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index
Reply 2
thewizard1 Prolific poster 4,832 posts
thewizard1
You will get tired of the hacksaw real quick it will take forever.
It can be done with a miter saw with the right type of blade. I have done that but don't like it its my last choice.
The angle grinder will also work but its hard to maintained accuracy ie square cuts.
A stand up band saw with a metal blade does not have a deep enough throat.
 
The best way is with a horizontal band saw like this. This is what we used in the shop.
I would suggest looking for a shop that would cut the material for you for a reasonable price.
Screenshot_3.jpg
The only thing I have mastered in life is how to spend money
Reply 3
eastwind Super User 4,474 posts
eastwind
I think if cost were no object, I'd get this: 
 
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/-/media/Products/Accessories/Cutting/Portable-Bandsaw-Blades/48-08-0260/48-08-0260_1.png?mh=520&mw=520&hash=DE2E2CAE8DD7FE09F029323267687342
 
The table (which comes without the legs) is almost $500, which seems outrageous. The arm fits all of Milwaukee's band saws, and the 'compact M18' one with a 3" cutting depth would be fine for me, I don't need the 'deep cut' 5"x5" one.  
 
But for the amount of work I need to do, it seems like overkill to pay that much. 
 
I could get a non-milwaukee cheap chinese similar tool for a lot less, and corded would be ok for me.

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Reply 3
eastwind Super User 4,474 posts
eastwind
As an example of a cheap chinese one, this is $180 (plus $70 import duty & shipping): 
 
That fits the budget, if it will not fly apart or cut curvey.

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index
Reply 2
thewizard1 Prolific poster 4,832 posts
thewizard1
This is also an option I have used these there not bad at all. Cost is reasonable I suspect you could sell it when your done and get most your investment back.
4cb892f54ae7bd76c3118ca4bf8264c4.jpg
The only thing I have mastered in life is how to spend money
Reply 2
Faire to Midland Regular poster 135 posts
Faire to Midland
Not sure why you wouldn't just have the welding shop cut the tubing and angle iron.  But I'm sure you have your reasons.  If you have no use for the tool after getting the benchwork done, I can't see any reason to buy anything fancier than an angle grinder with a few cutoff discs and grinding discs.  Decent gloves, eye protection, and a good face shield are pretty much a must, too.  Broken cutoff discs are no joke. 
 
You can mark the cut all the way around the tubing with a try square and soapstone (Or paint marker) and instead of trying to cut all the way through the tubing in one go,  just cut through one side with the cutting disc, then flip the tubing and cut through the opposite side.  Flip the tubing 90 degrees and connect the 2 cuts with another cut, then cut the last side the same way.  If you get the cuts a little out of square you can clean up the end with a grinding disc, but I predict it will take only a very few cuts to get the hang of cutting with the disc and you'll get them straight and square pretty easily.
 
If you really don't need the grinder after building the benchwork, maybe you can trade it  to the welder for some money off the job.  Welders tend to go through grinders, and yours will still be almost new.
Reply 4
thewizard1 Prolific poster 4,832 posts
thewizard1
eastwind wrote:
As an example of a cheap chinese one, this is $180 (plus $70 import duty & shipping): 
 
That fits the budget, if it will not fly apart or cut curvey.
That would be a good choice perhaps the best choice. worst part of that is the shipping and tax. Have you looked for a used one in your area?
The only thing I have mastered in life is how to spend money
Reply 2
ekull01 Regular poster 172 posts
ekull01
 
Or,
 
 
with a carborundum cutoff wheel.  
Reply 2
eastwind Super User 4,474 posts
eastwind
I wish we had a harbor freight here. There aren't any in all of Mexico. The nearest one is Laredo, 5 days drive away...
 
Import duty is 16%, that's going to apply to anything, and is going to add $30 to a $180 tool. I can buy from amazon.mx but the import duty is included in the (higher) prices there, there's no escaping it. Usually the difference between amazon.com and amazon.com.mx turns out to be negligible, although sometimes amazon.mx is a lot more for no apparent reason. That's the case with these:
 
 
 
The amazon.mx price, 7292 pesos is about US$429 (with free shipping since I have prime at amazon.mx) vs the US price of $183 plus $72 duty & shipping.
 
The $100 harbor freight one would be cheapest, even adding shipping and $16 duty, but they don't ship to Mexico.
 
I sort of don't like the arrangement of the electric cord on these things. For some reason, they have it coming off the front instead of the back.  Seems awkward and annoying. There must be some OSHA rule, because they're all like that. 
 
Is a band saw like shown going to create a lot of sparks? More or less than a cut-off wheel?

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index
Reply 2
ekull01 Regular poster 172 posts
ekull01
I've never had a bandsaw throw sparks; the cut is too fine and slow, relatively speaking. 
That cutoff saw with carborundum will throw a shower of sparks. Fun at night...
Reply 2
thewizard1 Prolific poster 4,832 posts
thewizard1
The cut off wheel creates a lot of sparks the band saw little if any, If you keep a little oil on the band saw blade you will have no sparks.
The only thing I have mastered in life is how to spend money
Reply 3
dapenguin Super User 1,112 posts
dapenguin
another HF
 
Were in Mexico are you?  My Grandfather Almost in Law has a house down there.  He is headed back in a couple days or weeks.  Can he ship across the country to you???   I texted him to get his location down there. 

TC Carr
Malheur, Kopperton & Tejas * Sn3½ in 1923
(the I don't know yet) * Sn2 "Gilpin in Idaho"
​Anaconda, Oregon & Pacific * S Scale Heavy Electric
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Reply 1
eastwind Super User 4,474 posts
eastwind
I'm in cancun, the Yucatan peninsula that reaches out to Cuba. I appreciate the offer, but don't want to put anyone out.

I have a mail drop in Texas and I can ship things there and they will reship them to me here, if the things are importable. It costs, but my US mail goes there and I need to have that sent down occasionally anyway.

I have a notion that maybe what i'll do is buy a milwaukee cordless off amazon and make my own horizontal stand for it out of wood, a hinge and a door closer.

Before getting sidetracked into that project, I'll see how hard it is to clamp the piece I want to cut with the end hanging past the end of the bench and cut it off holding the saw in two hands as its meant to be held.

This thread has been very helpful at focusing me on a band saw, I was leaning toward a hackzall (hand held electric reciprocating saw with a hack saw blade). It's nice to know what the right tool to buy is before you buy the wrong one.

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index
Reply 1
dapenguin Super User 1,112 posts
dapenguin
Ahh these vids are huge.  Can the moderators shrink them or tell me how?
 
I have seen DIY conversions of cutoff wheels and bandsaws on YouTube.  But saw this vid when searching YT for this message.  
 
This vid turns an angle grinder into a chopsaw.  
 
Speaking of which; They do make metal cutting blades for circular / chop saws.  And visa versa.

TC Carr
Malheur, Kopperton & Tejas * Sn3½ in 1923
(the I don't know yet) * Sn2 "Gilpin in Idaho"
​Anaconda, Oregon & Pacific * S Scale Heavy Electric
My Blog Index
Reply 1
eastwind Super User 4,474 posts
eastwind
Thanks TC, the vids are ok on my browser.

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index
Reply 1
DaleMierzwik Prolific poster 1,445 posts
DaleMierzwik
You can  also use a metal cutting blade in a skilsaw. It will cut through steel tubing like  cutting  a 2x4 with a wood blade. It is very fast but extremely loud (hearing protection is a must) and it throws a lot of  hot metal shavings (safety glasses is also a must). I have used this technique a lot in my line of work. It can cut 3/8 thick C-channel with no issues. But it is loud and messy. It also works well cutting lighter metal like metal studs or ductwork.

Dale
Reply 2
MikeHughes Super User 7,697 posts
MikeHughes
If you live in a condo, the noise of any kind of disc cutter will really bother yout neighbours.  This applies to chop saws or an angle grinder with a cut off disc.  Both are fast and fabulous though.  A powered bandsaw is quiet and generally accurate if you don’t stress it but they have risen from $300 to $400 up to $600 to $800 recently.
 
You will get a proper floor standing one for the same or not much more cost than the portable battery job and you can barely hear them run. 

I have one like this and it is the bomb as i can load it, set it, and forget it. It shuts off when it cuts through and is so quiet I only hear the steel drop when it cuts through.
 
 
I find if I’m welding, I use my chop saw.  If I’m cutting something for machining I use the band saw.
Happy NMRA Member since 2024
Reply 4
pierre52 MRH Author 1,541 posts
pierre52
Plus 1 for the angle grinder.   IMHO the bandsaw is an extremely pricey option for a one off job.  Conversely  a 5" corded angle grinder is cheap as chips and with a small amount of practice can make perfectly square cuts even when hand held.  
Have a look at this video:

Peter

The Redwood Sub
Reply 1
MikeHughes Super User 7,697 posts
MikeHughes
I have a little DeWalt 20volt angle grinder with a cut off disc.  It was on sale for about $120 Cdn or so. Works like a charm and you can make very accurate cuts with it, especially if you install the supplied handle!  (and the guard).   The guys in that video are goofs.

I am sure Milwaukee has the same thing available.  Personally, I love not being tethered by cords and have a dozen or so of the DeWalt 20volt brushless tools.  Tons of torque and fantastic battery life (except the compressor!)  I would not be withought my little miter saw and have used a cutoff disc in that as well, although I am not sure it is all that good for it.

A cutoff disk will go through steel like butter.  They are just REALLY noisy.
Happy NMRA Member since 2024
Reply 3
eastwind Super User 4,474 posts
eastwind
It looks like the only 3" cutoff saws milwaukee has are M12 rather than the M18 batteries I have.  So I would probably give up the portability and go with a cheap corded one from some other brand if I go that route, I'm most likely to want my metal shavings all in one place and to bring the work to the saw anyway. The loudness is a factor, but I figure I won't be using any of these at night, or for long stretches. The condo has rules about noise, and I am used to doing all my noisy work before 5 pm already, so noise isn't too big a deal.  Less loud is always better though. 
 
But what about one of these though:
 
 
I keep bringing this hackzall up not because I'm bent on it, but because it was part of the original topic but nobody has said 'don't get it', they just suggest things they like better - I don't know if that's because it's no good or because nobody has tried one. 
 
I think it should be a good deal safer than the 3" disk types, looks like it can be gripped two-handed to be steady, and maybe it is a compromise between a band saw and a cut-off wheel as far as sparks and noise?

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index
Reply 1
MikeHughes Super User 7,697 posts
MikeHughes
I’ve got one of those in my old corded Makita collection. It works but is a lot of work cutting metal tubing, and worse with solid stock. 
Happy NMRA Member since 2024
Reply 2
ctxmf74 Super User 17,201 posts
ctxmf74
A metal cutting disc in a skilsaw or angle driver will throw off lots of sparks. A saws all with metal blade should be able to handle the job. A hacksaw with a good blade might surprise you and be all you need, I would try that first. A hand held bandsaw would be okay but not too useful for most other jobs. I cut all the metal for my lumber racks with metal blade in chop saw, fast but noisy and sparks…. Dave B 

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Reply 3
Ken Rice Super User 7,503 posts
Ken Rice
I have a sawzall and metal blades for it.  I’ve cut a few metal things with it.  It’s a crude tool.  If you want any kind of accuracy I think you’re better off researching the highest quality hacksaw blades money can buy, and get a case of them.  Frequent fresh sharp blades should make hand sawing tolerable.
 
I’m kind of intimidated by the hand held angle grinder approach, on the grounds that it’s basically a dremel cutoff wheel on steroids with a lot more power behind it.  When a dremel catches on something it can yoink the tool around a bit, which is fine with a dremel.  Something the size and power of the angle grinder, that seems like it could get unpleasant.  Especially if the disk breaks in the process.
 
And angle grinder on a sliding track like the video Peter posted, or in some sort of chop saw arrangement, seems like it would be a lot safer.  And probably pretty easy to rig up.

My Bristol Industrial Track blog: https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/east-penn-rr-bristol-industrial-track-construction-begins-13769392
My blogspot blog (older layouts): http://rices-rails.blogspot.com/
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